The Great Pizza Debate
Yesterday I made a quick posting on Twitter and my Facebook about how Pizzeria Uno had filed for Chapter 11 and as is my nature, made a snappy comment along the lines of “I’m glad the world finally realised that Chicago-style is NOT pizza.” While many of my fellow east coasters agreed with me and laughed a bit, as always I ruffled some feathers & some defended their favourite pie. One of those defenders was a good friend from college who is so obsessed by pizza that he has spent so many man hours working on his own pizza dough and sauce that he is a self-titled pizza master. (I love you dearly, Stephen, but until I get samples you’re still a coffee-loving bassoon player in my heart.)
Just like there are with many foods that are beloved around the world, there will always be this debate about authenticity, history, style, etc, and pizza is no exception. It’s always funny to me to think of how pizza-obsessed we’ve become as a culture since my 90 year-old Italian immigrant Grandfather has told me stories about the rise of pizza culture in the US numerous times. Up until a few decades ago pizza was only found in Italian communities in various cities like Brooklyn, where he moved to as a child from Abruzzo. Brooklyn style (which is basically what most NY pizza is today) was a modification from the original Neapolitan pie, which is considered to be the original pizza.
For those of you unfamiliar with the story behind pizza, like any cherished food today it started out as food for the poor. While bakers used it as a means to gauge oven temperature as far back as the 16th century in Naples, the cooked dough was covered in a white sauce and often topped with olive oil, fish, and/or tomatoes and sold out in the streets like the busy Spaccanapoli for pennies. Forward to June 1889, where Neapolitan chef Raffaele Esposito wished to honour Queen Margherita of Savoy and created what is known today as the traditional Neapolitan pie: thin crust garnished with fresh tomato, mozzarella and basil. The red, white and green in the food as you may have guessed was meant to represent the Italian flag. **Random fact: Esposito was the first to add cheese to pizza; and while other chefs created food for the Queen’s visit, she strongly preferred his pizza because of the taste and its representation of the flag’s colours.
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Obviously we now have all these different styles of pizza and everyone has their favourite, but Naples took it one step further in 1984 with the creation of the Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana, which only recognizes the margherita and the marinara and compiled a specific set of rules for those that which to call their pizza “Neapolitan.” Such rules include that the pizza must be made in a wood-fired, domed oven at 485 C for no more than 60 — 90 seconds; the dough must be needed by hand and no rolling pins or mechanical devices are to be used, with the dough’s diameter being no more than 35 centimetres. Just like we have here in the US, even parts of Italy have regional styles like Sicily (square slices with thicker crust) and Rome, where pizza is a snack food that’s folded like a sandwich and only the dough is exposed.
Here in New York we fight Chicago in two aspects: hot dogs and pizza. Chicago-style pizza is also known as “deep-dish” because it’s prepared in a special pan that allots for a much thicker crust and allows for greater amounts of cheese, sauce, and toppings. Just like when I order coffee and tell the person behind the counter I want a bit of milk with my coffee and not a bit of coffee with my milk, I feel the exact same way about pizza: I don’t want mounds of greasy dough in my way. (I also don’t want to eat a slice and feel like I’m carrying dead weight in my intestines, either.) I always wondered why Chicago has to add so much to their versions of popular East Coast foods, but I’m guessing their ridiculous Winter weather patterns have something to do with it.
I don’t think I have to spell out what I prefer and grew up with, but what do you like and why? Is there any merit at all to the great pizza debate??
I will invoke East Coast bias here and say the best pizza I’ve had in my life was a pizza I got from a shop in Brooklyn when my fam and I paid a visit to my late grandmother when she was living there. The sheer size of it could be intimidating but you can’t deny that the experience you get with an NY-style pizza!
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 10:55 am | QuoteI’m of the mindset of “can’t we all just get along?” LOL I love my deep dish pie, and happy that a NEW chicago style pizza place is opening right by my work…but we also have a new restaraunt, Dough, that specializes in authentic Italian fireoven pies (oh so thin & delicious!) and calzones – which I adore as well. Just as I can appreciate cigars with a great candela wrapper (albeit rarely!) as much as a awesome maduro, I love all sorts of QUALITY pizza!
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 10:56 am | QuoteNothing better than Patsy on the Upper East Side, right down to the little charr on the crust from the brick oven that has been burning hot since the early 1900′s. Living in Texas makes it hard to get good Pizza so coming back to NYC is a blessing. Chicago style Pizzas is an event as you need silverware to eat. Pizzeria UNO’s was the Mickey Dee’s of Chicago style Pizza and in visiting Chicago or other cities you find some great tasting stuff, but nothing come’s close to walking to a tiny shop a yelling “SLICE” at the top of your lung, with the result being a generously sized “piece de resistance”…… and under $3 bucks in any borough
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 11:03 am | QuoteHaving lived 15 years in Napoli I could agrue about pizza for hours on end so there definitely is merit in there for me. Like you I grew up used to a certain type of pizza and am quite a traditionalist in that regard. Still having lived around Europe and the US I am more tollerant than I was before and as long as it is flat and has simple toppings I’m fine with it. I can’t stand fancy toppings as pizza is a simple homely dish and stuff like caviar on it is plain wrong. Similarly deep dish stuff like Chicago style can be good, even delicious but it ain’t flat so it ain’t pizza.
BTW, the Raffaele Esposito story is a nice marketing myth but probably not exactly the truth. There are old Neapolitan Osteria (wine bars of the time
) songs that talk about pizza with cheese or herbs like basilicum. Indipendently of what really happened, what Esposito certainly did was to give the Margerita pizza its name.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 11:07 am | QuoteI know it’s not a quick trip depending on where you are in Texas, but do yourself a favour and get to Phoenix to go to Chris Bianco’s place, Pizzeria Bianco. He is a legend and I don’t know if there is anything I wouldn’t eat coming out of that oven…soooooooo good.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 11:08 am | QuoteI’ve read and heard a lot of stories that even back in the 17th century there was cheese sometimes found on the pizza sold in the streets, but the problem is that there isn’t any solid documented evidence claiming dates for this, etc. I have a degree in Musicology and if someone wanted to fund some major research I bet you I could find out some answers and publish a paper or two on it. (Ahem…*shameless plug* for those with money who think I’m worth it! )
Did you ever go into Michele and make fun of the Americans who were cutting their pizza with a fork and knife into triangular slices? Hahaha…tear and fold, people, just tear and fold!
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 11:20 am | QuoteMichele is my favorite pizzeria in Napoli and the son of the owner is a school mate of my younger borther so I used to go there quite often. I have to admit I didn’t meet any foreigners trying to cut pizza in triangular slices, maybe I was lucky. Usually had more fun with the Milanesi asking for pizza with toppings… what part of “it’s only Margherita or Marinara” don’t you understand
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 12:01 pm | QuoteHahaha…I would pay to be able to see the Milanesi get shot down. They are such snobs and are so used to getting their way!
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 12:10 pm | QuoteGive me New York Style Pizza because I almost choked to death on Deep Dish pizza.
I was working in a Record Shop (wow I just dated myself), and we ordered in from Pizzeria Uno. Normally they didn’t deliver, but my fried worked there and she always sent over free stuff. Anyway, I took a piece of pizza and the cheese was extra stringy. Next thing you know I can’t breathe. But it was only cheese so I was able to pull it out much like a magician and his magic scarves.
Needless to say I never ate deep dish pizza again.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 1:29 pm | QuoteWhoa….
You heard it here first, folks: deep dish pizza can kill!
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 1:40 pm | Quotei currently live in Bella Napoli……..and the pizza isn’t all that great…….just a lot of hype.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 1:54 pm | QuoteChicago style pizza is just another expression of pizza. Just as much as Pinot Noir from the U.S. and Bordeaux are all still red wine. The best pizza in Chicago is definitely not Pizzeria Uno for heavens sake. That’s like saying Dunkin Donuts is real coffee. You HAVE to try The Art of Pizza (my personal favorite) and Pequods. And even in Chicago, there are deep dish and thin crust lovers. And everyone has their favorite place. In my experience, it’s always the New Yorkers who get uptight about this.
P.S.
Don’t ever put ketchup on a hot-dog.
Posted on January 21st, 2010 at 11:55 pm | QuoteI think there is merit to both NY and Chicago styles, but at the risk of opening up a whole other can of – um….sauce…what about the ultra-thin, cracker-type crust of St. Louis Style pizza? Not being a native to STL, I find myself absolutely LOVING the crust, especially when slightly overdone for extra crispiness, but I really just can’t get used to the Provel cheese they use here (I always order mine with mozzerella).
I suppose the STL style is closer to the NY style, even though regionally we’re closer to Chicago…how’s that for irony?
Either way…barring the comments above that “Deep Dish Pizza can kill”…I once heard a quote that went something like “pizza is a lot like sex, it’s never bad when that is what you crave”…or something like that.
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 11:45 am | QuoteNew York pizza is the best…no questions asked. But since 1986, when living in Miami, I started going to Pizzeria Uno after my previous favorite pizza
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 2:37 pm | Quoteplace (outside of NY) My Pie Pizza closed….Alright, start bringing NY Pizzerias to DC!!!! Miss having a slice at Ben’s Pizzeria in the Village.
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This post was mentioned on Twitter by TheCigarChick: Weigh in on the great #pizza debate at http://www.lindsayheller.com/?p=95! #italy #food…
Posted on January 22nd, 2010 at 3:18 pm | QuoteEvery time I’m trying out pizza outside of New York it just doesn’t satisfy me the same. I tried a very much praised pizza spot in Texas, it wasn’t bad I liked it but I’m sorry the slice tasted like one of those frozen pizzas you make in the microwave. I have to say that NY pizza is just the best in my opinion in terms of size, flavor and price.
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